Jetboating.net Home
Login CreateAccount News Forums Galleries Articles Boats Destinations Events Links Search
 
 
   
  Forum:  My Forum     

Speedster200 updates?
Posted on Jan 16,2004 1:57:36 AM GMT         SeaDoo Boats -
gregz
Joined: 11/30/2002
# of posts:4592
  
Feedback is still sketchy on the Speedster200. They're shipping and people are buying them, so what's the scoop?

Nice boat? Disappointment? Quiet? Loud? Slow? Fast? Gas guzzler? Porpoise too much? Lot's of storage or no?

SeaDoo - 1999 - Speedster SK - Twin 85hp Rotax (720)
Reply to this Message

Author Reply
geeboy
I think they're ugly Jan 17,2004 6:33:19 PM GMT

Maybe it's something that has to grow on you or something but I keep looking at the new speedsters and I just think they are one butt ugly boat !

SeaDoo - 2000 - Speedster - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

Paulie
They do not doo-it for me............ Jan 18,2004 4:24:45 PM GMT

I can see why they made them look the way they do, can even appreciate why people like them, but for me
............no. I like the round look, seems sexier. That could explain my obsession with the 14.5. No matter what
color it is, it looks right. Challenger 1800 has the same "right" look.
As far as boat itself......too soon to tell. Couple Mags have run it, seemed kinda slow for all that power. Could
be just a big A boat...........looking forward to hearing about it. The 4-tech single is out there in number now, and
not too much coming back here one way or another. Maybe they are just good and their owners do not need to
find this board to bitch and ask questions? SEA DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
They are slower ........ Jan 19,2004 12:42:31 AM GMT

........ cause they're overweight. Something in the neighbourhood of 600/700 lbs. more than a C2k / Merc. Blame the 4Tec engines for those calories !

Still luv the humpy 14.5 myself. Always reminded me of a 1958 Corvette.

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

JimFla
slower,ugly,bad weight disp... Jan 19,2004 2:47:35 AM GMT


..to tell you the truth this boat piss me off. I thought we had a new boat that was going to be fast and looking like a boat. But they put out something that is a freak compared to everything else at the dock. If they had the balls to make it fast I could understand, but they went for some chesseeeeeeese look and it is slow compared to most of the older Doo's.

The DI or 4Tec are breaking ground in the skis. But IMHO they need to re-think the boat app.


SeaDoo - 1997 - Challenger 1800 - Twin 110hp Rotax (800) Reply to this message

gregz
I don't understand the weight thing Jan 19,2004 5:07:01 AM GMT

In the PWC world, a GTX 4Tec weighs 840 pounds. A GTi with a 110 Rotax RFI weighs 700 pounds, and it is 10 inches shorter than the GTX. So I'm guessing the 4Tec engine itself weighs only 100-130 pounds more than the 782cc 110 hp two stroke that was in the old Rotax twin boats. That 200-260 pound difference (engine x 2) just doesn't account for the huge weight of the Speedster 200. I say it's mostly in fiberglass, not engine.

It's sad. I always wanted a twin 4-Tec, but I'm not sure the Speedster200 is what I want. SeaDoo bombed with the styling of the first U-boat, so maybe it will take a second try to get the Speedster200 right.

SeaDoo - 1999 - Speedster SK - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
I'm speculating here ....... Jan 19,2004 3:38:41 PM GMT

... cause I've got NO data to backup my yakking, but here's my spin for conversation sake only.

It's common knowledge that 4 stroke engines have always had a design limitation problem in the power to weight ratio compared to a 2 stroke engine. Four strokes are just heavier.

May I "assume" for a moment that a single 4Tec and pump weighs in comparatively close to a Merc setup. Add that extra 4Tec engine in the Twin, plus pump, the additional superstructure and Fiberglas to hold it altogether and you've got a Doo that's overburdened by it's own mass. When you total up the extra HP, you're only getting a net 50 to 60 extra ponies outa the deal to push that bloated 700 lbs. of extra dead weight.

Further, this 700lbs. has increased the net weight of this DOO by 33%, but the net gain in additional HP is only 11%. We now have a substantial loss in the power to weight ratio that is unacceptable.

In addition, lets consider the equation of fuel savings the 4Tec is supposed to provide. Now consider the addition 700lbs. of dead weight it has to push. Too much math for me ! DOO you really think we're saving anything. I doubt it. But, I tell ya, the design engineering fellas at Sea Doo must have know this.

This is a boat that was designed by the marketing folks and sent down to engineering to be saddled with this burden to come up with a DOO that was obviously sketched out on a cocktail napkin over a three martini lunch. What in the hell were they thinking !!!!!!

What they gotta DOO is cast these blocks in aluminium c/w steel piston sleeve inserts. This crash diet would shed maybe 400 lbs.total, then boost the output to 200 horses each, as in super/turbo charged. Now that's my kinda DOO !!!

In the current configuration, this DOO needs at least 400+ total HP to even validate it's existence, IMHO.

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

dana
I think you are right... Jan 19,2004 2:59:38 PM GMT

I realize that you are just guessing with the numbers, but even so... You can't be too far off the mark. Having a pair of 4-tec engines w/pumps has got to weigh a lot, plus, all the weight is in the rear, unlike a jetski where it's in the middle.

I know I sound like a broken record here... But THIS is why the Mercury Optimax 250 is the best choice for an engine in these boats... Given the current available selection, that is.

Good analysis, Stv.

-Dana

SeaDoo - 2000 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

Dane
Why do the reports show the.... Jan 19,2004 3:46:04 PM GMT

Yamaha boat which has less hp and a heavier weight seem to perform better?
Maybe the 4-tec should be limited to 18' or smaller size boat? A conversion kit for older model doos to the 4-tec would be great!
We can only hope someone at seadoo reads this forum and will pass on our ideas.

SeaDoo - 1997 - Challenger 1800 - Twin 110hp Rotax (800) Reply to this message

dana
I don't care for this boat either... Jan 19,2004 2:54:30 PM GMT

I think they tried to hard to make it look cool (like a chrysler) without making any offort or thought for practicality or usability. They should have built the vehicle more for it's passengers (like a honda).

My Y2K C20 still blows away all who see her at the dock, on the water, behind my vehicle while towing, or just sitting in my driveway. Mostly, people comment on how comfortable it is to ride in, how fast it is, and what great storage it has. The only complaint I ever get is that the seats get so frickin' hot, which I complain about myself. It's something that hardly anyone mentions here, but it really is the one bad thing about that model. But it's something I can live with.

Anyway, I appreciate their efforts at SeaDoo to try to improve and keep it fresh, but I think they failed here.

Plus, for me... No Mercury Power = NO SALE!

-Dana

SeaDoo - 2000 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

Paulie
Twin 4-tech Jan 19,2004 3:47:28 PM GMT

I think the boat is just plain ole heavy. Powerplants are heavier than two strokes, but not that much heavier.
I think most of the weight is the boat itself. This could be a bonus in big water, something no Doo is that great in.
Also heavier hull could be stronger......remember the 98 speester hull crack?...........What did that one cost?
Any how, sales will tell all in the end. I can say that they are "huge money" so big infact, there is a ton of other
stuff in that price range.
I think there is a market for twin engine boats, yamahas continue, in fact never stopped. I suspect that like
the Merc power plants, it will come down to twin DI two strokes. Power to weight is there, with economy and
clean emissions. I would think the only 4-tech advantage is durability..........maybe. Time will tell. The fresh water
cooling is cool too, but that could be fitted to a two stroke..............Rotax On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
Yes Paulie, but ... Jan 20,2004 1:01:25 AM GMT

... it's still TWO engines and pumps with only a net gain of 50 HP ! Yer telling me that two 4Tec's and pumps weigh-in close to a single Merc setup. No-no my friend. Picture for a moment a dream " Twin Merc Optimax " (forget the cost) . It would, in all probability come in at slightly more weight as the 2x4Tec's, BUT yer now talking *500 BRUTE PONIES* not 310. Thats my point, power to weight.

I think your point about a market for twins is correct. And that's my other point. This is a DOO that was put together by the marketing group, not a design/engineering group. The tell-tale hallmarks are all over it. Macho twins, new high tech motors, incongruous style lines and kitschy, tacky colour scheme. This boat spent more time on market study panels than actual design study and the fractured bits of market influences (data) were all tossed into a salad spinner and spit out, then glued together.

This 4Tec was tossed x2, into this DOO only because they had (make) the engines from the PWCs, cause they could DOO it and that it is nothing more than a "Corporate Marketing" tool to SHOWCASE Sea Doo "proprietary engine property and technologies". Period !!!!

DOO you think they added additional glass reenforcement to the hull and abandoned the light-weight flimsy fibre-core hull. DOOn't think so, cause SD would have made sure we new that. Granted some additional hull beefing had to be done to handle the twin mounts.

A single 4Tec could not push this boat, so a twin configuration was a must. DOOn't you think for a moment that the mechanical engineers didn't DOO the calculations on power to weight and 4Tec/4-stroke fuel economy verses additional block and hull weight. Of course they did....... That's what they went to school and trained for and DOO for a living !

Form over function here, in today's economy, marketing dictates. I just think SD was a little premature in showcasing a 4Tec(2) in a full size watercraft or they just plain lost site of the goal.

This DOO is solely a marketers cumulative "Wet-Dream" , an engineers "Nightmare" and a consumers "Con-Job" and I just can't believe how this flaky, concept DOO even made it into production. Time and sales, or lack-of, will tell.

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Rusher
Dreaming of twin Merc's.. Jan 29,2004 2:05:40 AM GMT

Stv,
you dont have to dream, Marathon Marine make a 20 ft Bowrider with twin Merc jets. Of course , its alloy and lacks the sleek SD lines, but i bet it is one heck of a performer !http://www.marathonmarine.com/Twin.htm

Reply to this message

Stv
Mmmmmmmmmm Twins ! Jan 29,2004 5:34:04 AM GMT

...... but pig-ugly ! ;)'

Them babies were designed for shallow salmon/trout rivers and big rapids. Did you notice the lame subs he was pulling on the video ? heheheh

Thx !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Paulie
Twin Mercs................. Jan 29,2004 2:10:48 PM GMT

..........and Canadian to boot! This could be Stv's next boat!

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

MikeeZ
Twin mercs Jan 29,2004 5:41:26 PM GMT

Yeah, ugly, big time. The boat looks 20 years old, brand new. And the boat the twins are in looks like it has bench seating for going on boat tours or something, not speeding across the lake - if the boat was that fast, you'd think the seating would reflect it?

Reply to this message

rayg
Seems like a waste of twinage..... Jan 29,2004 1:29:07 PM GMT



Only one pic of the twins.....



Love the '80s big hair metal rock rip-off music in the video.

Hey STV, They were sportJettin in the snow there!!! hehe You guys could be dooin that all winter!! ;)

It's soooooooooo shiny!!!

Stick those in the S200!

RayG

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Stv
If your finding it a little too warm ........ Jan 29,2004 6:41:51 PM GMT

....... in FlaDuh, I'll send you a pic of my snow-blower, spewing a 40 foot sno-rooster-tail ! That'l cool ya down ;)'

Looking closer at this site, these jet-boats are made in Edmonton, Alberta, .... Canuck. The waterways in 2/3rds of the Great WHITE North are wide and shallow or rock strewin rapids.

These jets are utilitarian in design: double aluminium hulls, twin engined for reliability, long, wide and low. Built for fishermen, logging, geographical exploration, mining and remote resorts, you name it.
I've lived in the North West Territories and been on those waterways. The last thing I would want in that kinda environment is a flimsy, plastic hulled DOO, that's for sure!

Ski-DOO-on !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

JimFla
I have seen homemade.... Jan 29,2004 6:50:20 PM GMT


..boats going down the river behind my house with gator trapers in it that look just like it. You have to love the long bench seats, thats to hold more RedNecks in it.


SeaDoo - 1997 - Challenger 1800 - Twin 110hp Rotax (800) Reply to this message

Stv
.......!... d'em's rednicked bots fer shure ! Jan 29,2004 9:48:52 PM GMT

............hehehe ;)'

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Rusher
Radical tower design ? Jan 29,2004 10:39:39 PM GMT

could thiat be a new fashion in tower design ?? .... ir is it a permanent Bimini ??

On a more serious note, don't be too critical od the boat layout , most of these Alloy boats are custom built for the specific customer requirements. There is a alloy jet boat builder near to me that will build any size , shape, configuration you want. Powered by a 150hp marinised GM 4 stroke and a NZ jet unit.... or even 2 !!

Reply to this message

gregz
Oh yes, the frcikin' seats Jan 20,2004 4:43:42 AM GMT

Since we're bashing Bombo here, let me put in a word on the seats. What's up with dark vinyl seats, eh? Don't Doo designers know we use our boats out in the sun, on hot summer days? Then why make the darn seats into solar energy storage devices, ready to burn your buns when it's time to take a seat? This is truly another case of fashion over function.

We pointed this out on a previous era of the board, and were told by SeaDoo folks that the vinyl colors (for example the grey color of the later model Speedsters) was carefully chosen for it's reflective properties. Baloney. If you can't hold you're palm on a Doo seat in the summer sun for more than five seconds without pulling away in pain, then it's the wrong color.

To your point, Dana, the C2K seats doo get hot. I nearly bought the boat once, but for several reasons did not at the time. One of those reasons, albeit a minor one, was that the seats got so hot in the sun. I stayed with my yellow ones, which stay cool.

Now on your modern Utopias, the seats are mostly white, so that's a step in the right direction. So to balance a good deed with a bad, they go and make the windshield trim Black! Ouch!

SeaDoo - 1999 - Speedster SK - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Paulie
Oh Ya, Sea Doo does listen............ Jan 20,2004 3:04:47 PM GMT

..........to what is said here. Look at the hits on the site, they poked around the old site too. It is all free juice
to these guys, some companies pay huge $$ for market research that may or may not be accurate. Its all free
and from the horses mouth here. These guys are NOT stupid, at least at upper managentment levels.
They actually posted here and there on the original site. 2000 they made them self known to us .
Dave at the time did not have a love fest with the Company. I always felt that was a mistake for both of them.
Granted Dave could be excitable, that is what made the board a hit, and ultimately formed the foundation for this
one. Bottom line is Sea Doo does care, to the extent they want to do business. Not always particularly warm and
fuzzy, but predictable.
So post away, your likes, dislikes, wishes, etc. They are heard and ultimately matter to some degree!
Post On !


SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
O'k ... 24 hours later ......... Jan 21,2004 2:24:04 AM GMT

.... we have 500 plus hits tonight, verses 1000 plus hits at the same time yesterday, right after the thrash string of (trash) SD posts.

Now, this is where PatC comes in. Pat, Doo tell us who is lurking in from the boat industry and monitoring our site. What does your "cookie" board tell you, ... us ?

DOO tell us ? !!

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Paulie
Hit difference is holiday here in the states....... Jan 21,2004 3:27:52 AM GMT

Martin luther King holiday was monday, so many people had day off, could explain huge hit increase. Yes
Sea Doo does check this place out, but I would be real surprised if the tech trail would tell you anything.

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

JimFla
another guess..... Jan 21,2004 3:54:26 AM GMT


....could be one of the guys reading the post belongs to a yamaha board and posted a link so they can gloat. Anyone every check out RIVA board or Jeff's among others to see what is going on with their boats ? I doo and can find some good info sometimes.


SeaDoo - 1997 - Challenger 1800 - Twin 110hp Rotax (800) Reply to this message

Paulie
Yamaha...Jeffs board Jan 21,2004 3:59:00 AM GMT

I have gone there to poke around. All yamaha stuff... but seems decent. I think it moved..Speaking of Yamaha,
I am curious what rising fuel prices will do for sales. All boats for that matter, fuel just keeps getting higher.......
Thanks W. Drink On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
My spin is ............... Jan 21,2004 4:01:42 AM GMT

..... the SD Marketing and Engineering Departments were keeping a keen eye on the twin 4Tec trashing ......... ah huh !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

patc
Another possibility Jan 21,2004 1:41:16 PM GMT

There have been a lot of new accounts lately so it could also be many users just browsing past posts. Checking the logs to figure it out is not that easy. I doubt the number is high because of that one post.
We recently broke 1000 accounts! I will see what type of reports I can get out of the web statistics to publish.

pat

SeaDoo - 2000 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

johnm
200 owner feedback Jan 22,2004 2:17:05 AM GMT

I bought a 200 in july, I am very happy so far with this speedster. I recently owned a challenger 1800 with a 240efi. The magazine have missled you on the 200. My boat after breakin runs alittle over 60mph.It has a deeper sound than my old one but it is turning 7250 rpm's. This boat does not porpoise at all. That was my biggest disappointment of my challenger. The storage is more but not that much. This boat is very deep,and is almost twenty feet long.this is the reason for the heavy weight. If you want a boat to just spin around in circles this isn't the boat for you,but if you want to go across the lake wide open and not have to worry about porpoising or big waves the 200 is very good in the waves.

Reply to this message

Paulie
Another happy customer! Jan 22,2004 2:54:16 AM GMT

Thanks for the input, sounds like you are digging your boat. As you may have guessed, you are the only
one to report so far on this newest of Sea Doos. How is the fuel burn? Did you trade in your challenger or
sell it out right? How is the hole shot/acceleration of the boat? Rotax On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

johnm
holeshot Jan 22,2004 3:04:57 AM GMT

The fuel economy is as good as the 240efi maybe even better. THe holeshot is as good but nothing compared to 1600 speedster with twin 110's. top end I can otrun the new lx 210 yamaha,which pisses of my good friend that purchased it rightn before I got mine. The fuel economy of the seadoo is alot better then his yamaha. The only jet boat that can run with the 200 on our water is a xr 1800 yamaha which is very much smaller boat.

Reply to this message

Stv
Twin Spdstr. Jan 22,2004 3:15:21 PM GMT

Glad to hear that you found us and that your pleased with your new Doo. This site has been anxious to hear from an owner. We have been a little critical of this craft, only because we have had little real user information about it. Please DOOn't take any of that as personal.
Hope you stick around this site and keep us updated on your experiences with it.
The 20 ft. hull (mine) verses the 18 ft. is a little more stable, as in it bows down faster at lower speeds and tends not porpoise. That is good news on your Spdst. handling, as there was some concern about stern weight with the twins.

Have you done a GPS on the top-end speed ?

Enjoy !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

gregz
Keep it coming, johnm Jan 22,2004 6:38:33 PM GMT

Great feedback, especially from someone that has owned a previous Doo to compare to. Hope you don't mind my questions. I saw the boat at the Chicago show yesterday. It looked better in person than the one or two pictures SeaDoo shows. I shot photos I will post soon.

I'm getting a best price of about $23900 without the tower. The tower adds $1800 (ouch). I'm told the SeaDoo tower is not an afermarket add-on. You must buy it with the boat.

What about noise? At idle and WOT, how does it compare to Merc Doo (or a two stroke twin Rotax)? Is it louder or quieter than your old boat? Vibration better or worse?

Glad to hear porpoising is not an issue. Saves the cost of adding aftermaket tabs, etc. I noticed the bow entry angle was very gradual. This may explain the smooth ride in waves.

Have you skied or wakeboarded behind it? Will a wakeboard fit through the ski locker opening? I know the compartment itself is big enough (I could fit in it).

Thanks for you input.

SeaDoo - 1999 - Speedster SK - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

rayg
That sounds pretty good Greg...... Jan 22,2004 7:46:30 PM GMT

The price I mean. Even the tower, 1800 for the doo tower is a good deal. Usually they will stick it to ya!

I looked at them at my local dealer. They have 1 blue and 1 red. I think I perfer the blue. Nice boat. I guess the weed tine are electric now. I saw a switch for it. I briefly talked to a salesdork (that knew VERY little about the boat) and he said 28K for the boat. I'd say 24 is a good buy. Maybe I should have held out for the Speedster 200! Though you did look really cozy with the merc!



You could be the king od lake anna!

Shop on!

RayG

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Paulie
Where are your hands..............? Jan 22,2004 11:26:12 PM GMT

Better check the bilge pump screen..............Love your Merc On!

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
I'm happy that Ray & Greg have ......... Jan 23,2004 2:58:52 AM GMT

.... finally come around and (outed-themselves) welcomed this Spdstr. guy !

(and we have clown members that wish for the board of OLD .... ???? )

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Paulie
Hey, don't step on my big "A" floppy shoes................ Jan 23,2004 11:59:11 PM GMT

who you callin' clown? I think the politically correct term is " Court Jester", and from a guy who started a
racist Sea Doo board( Canadian only!) ? Where pray tell are your priorities?
This board has its own life, but it is firmly entrenched in the previous board.........as it should be. I don't
believe the rules said anything about leaving your sence of humor behind when you log on. Speaking of
humor, Dude, we really have to talk about the magic bean thing. Personally I liked the play on the Bard
better. Yank Chain On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Stv
This one's for you Paulie ....... Jan 24,2004 12:28:57 AM GMT

.... Bard is back.

Too cold, too much snow and bored to "H, E, Double Hockey Sticks" and no boat !

Need a brain-thaw vacation and soon ......... Gonna see the FlaDuh "RAT" come first week first of March.

Yank-on !



SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

gregz
Yeah, the ol'Lake Anna pic! Jan 23,2004 4:37:53 AM GMT

We should point out that the picture is not doctored. I really doo fit in C2K engine room.

That's a big negative on the Speedster 200 (time to start calling it the S200 for short). The engine room is low, wide, ande FULL. Gives you more room in the tray above for storage than the Merc setup, but no room to crawl inside with the motors. See my pics in a separate post.

I'm still deciding between ths S200, C2K w/250, and U205 w/250. S200 fits my needs the best, but the weight concerns me.


SeaDoo - 1999 - Speedster SK - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Paulie
Call of the windshield............. Jan 24,2004 12:03:10 AM GMT

............do you hear it? Does the 205 have a flip up helm seat so to stand? I gotta admit, after they changed
the color, that bad boy looks good. Hull is still kind a blunt though.......will not ride as smooth as your current
boat. The S200, with the sharp entry and large mass should lay down the water nicely.........Rotax On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Paulie
It is all about the twin................. Jan 24,2004 12:05:13 AM GMT

so what if you can not get " upclose and personal" with them. I would be thinking supercharging can not be far
away............could be reason to hang loose............Rotax On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

gregz
Now that you mention it Jan 24,2004 6:01:25 AM GMT

The Yamaha 23 footer does have flip up helm seats. So what's the point in a windshield if you just wanna look over it?

SeaDoo - 1999 - Speedster SK - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

Paulie
Options, some times you Doo...... Jan 24,2004 2:13:16 PM GMT

I have noticed with the Regal that it is 50 50 as to what you want. I will tell you that when it is a little cold
or a little wet, or you are flying back to camp before dark, the wind shield is very sweet. The combo bolster
seat is the way to go..............Rotax On !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Sportster LT - Twin 85hp Rotax (720) Reply to this message

MikeeZ
Where do you get a 200 for $23.9K? About to purchase.. + thoughts Jan 28,2004 7:30:24 PM GMT

I'm curious where you get the 200 for 23.9 ? Please send a link or phone # or something.

I saw the 200 in person at the boat show in Orlando over the weekend, and I really liked it. My last boat was a bayliner (yuck!) and I had almost every problem you can think of with the electrical system and motor. It was a Penta powered prop, I think when it was new it was a decent setup but I must have just bought a lemon.

I'm looking at alot of the negative comments, and all of the people on their Optimax/Merc/Anti-whatever bandwagon's, so help me with a few points?

If 2 stroke motors are superior in everyway, why aren't they in automobiles? I don't want to get flamed over this, but seriously, I think you guys are trying to make the point that the speedster 200 isn't all you hoped it would be, but you're attacking the motor design, when I don't know that that is necessarily its flaw. I don't think the fact that its a 4stroke is contributing to the additional weight. Obviously some of you are happy with your twin 110 Rotax powered boats, so its not that its a twin engine. Someone did bring up a good point, that the deck, hull etc has been extensively changed to meet some of the complaints you guys have regarding the Challengers, etc. The deeper hull that digs through waves, the longer deck thats more usable, and the bars that give a place to hold onto, mount a tower, etc add weight here and there.

Isn't the idea of a closed cooling system appealing to all you boaters that use your boat frequently? I lived in my last boat as much as possible DESPITE it being a pain in the ass to flush it (using those stupid suction cup contraptions), and I didn't live on the water at the time so it meant towing the boat to the car wash/water hose area to flush it. Plus, this is claimed to be a performance advantage over the open cooling. Opinions?

I'm just not sure why so much negativity towards the boat. It seems like they're actually trying to answer the complaints and requests of people exactly like you - its a very fast, stable "all-purpose" fun boat that is capable of having a tower, or not, its smoother in chop than your C1800's, and faster. (?)

You guys are the current Doo owners, so you know more than I do, though I'm about to join your ranks. Call me a noobie, but I was impressed with the speedster 200, and I think it answers everything I want to do in the water, most of which, is spending more time in the water and less time adding oil to my gas, religiously flushing my boat , etc..

Mike

Reply to this message

JimFla
Welcome MikeeZ Jan 28,2004 8:19:17 PM GMT


You make lots of good points and don't take the negativity wrong, we like alot of things about the boat but for some of us they could have done better. And your right it's a better boat than my C1800 but my boat is 7 yrs old and broke new ground just like the new speedster is dooing when it was new.

I like the old style rear seats more they look and feel like your in a jetboat.In the speedster they look like they belong on a deck boat and I think they are not a safe, IMHO. Same thing for the bars.

I only boat in saltwater so the closed cooling system is a big plus for me, but if I had to keep it on a lift spraying down the heat exchanger under the boat and on the other side from the dock could be a problem for some. Otherwise it's a great engine they should have put the faster one in thou, IMHO.

Jim


SeaDoo - 1997 - Challenger 1800 - Twin 110hp Rotax (800) Reply to this message

MikeeZ
SS200 thoughts Jan 28,2004 9:07:22 PM GMT

I definitely understand where you're coming from, but one thing I'm looking for is affirmation that I'm indeed, buying a good boat, and that others more knowledgable than me would buy the same boat in my shoes.

I can see your point on the rear seats needing to hug the passengers a little better. I'm actually confused about the middle person on the bench in the back, seems unsafe with nothing to hold onto (And theres no cup holder for her anyway!) On the bars, I'm curious if people will be hitting their head on them or not. If so a wrap around padding or something may be in order. I think the boat has a nice look to it, however.

I don't claim to be a boat expert, I am a motorhead from the car arena. Does the motors being mounted low in the bow give the boat a lower center of gravity, adding to the handling of the boat, or do the physics not really transfer from the road to the water world? To me, it seems like the lower center of gravity would help it handle better and keep those intakes in the water, but maybe it doesn't really matter.

More engine is ALWAYS BETTER :) However, while I was touring the boat show, I tried to look at everything 18-21 ft at the show. I couldn't find any non-ridiculous priced boat that had similiar power. The closest I found was the Yamaha jet, 270 horsepower and about 2200 lbs, beyond that, it was pretty much all prop boats that were being offered with either a 135HP V6 3.0L or a 225HP V6 4.3L. A salesman selling "Stingray" boats had a 19ft boat w/ the 4.3L motor that he claimed was a 60mph boat. Maybe, but I had trouble believing this 18K, no frills boat would outpace practically every other boat in the same class at the show. Some people at the SeaDoo area said the speedster did 58mph on GPS at their little lake here in town.

Anyway. Lets say the SS200 was only 2100 lbs instead of its "hulky" 2700 - How much faster would it be?

Can someone explain what "porpoising" means, I have never heard this term before.

Thanks -

Mike

Reply to this message

davidspstr
Welcome Bombardier Marketing Department Jan 28,2004 8:58:39 PM GMT

We have always figured you were lurking out there, nice to hear from you. Jimfla hit the nail on the head with all of his comments. The most important is, we want more HP like the RXP we have discussed. I understand that you can't put out a 215hp x 2 boat or people will get killed in it and sue you, 430 hp would be to much, so how about something in between. I still think that the tail section is to big, I had rather have a little more interior room. Unfortunately some folks aren't going to like it at first because it is different. This is true for the hull and the engine set up. The closed loop is a great idea but more power please... Is $23,9 below your agreed pricing level? Is this dealer in trouble? Again Welcome...

SeaDoo - 2000 - Speedster - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

MikeeZ
Funny - Jan 28,2004 9:15:37 PM GMT

Funny how inconceivable an optimist is to some, I suppose.

I can't tell if you're a smartass, or just an ass - It doesn't seem like you're joking, so to clarify, I'm definitely not part of SeaDoo or Bombardier. LOL, but that is pretty funny. I was more expecting someone to call me an idiot and link me to a "SeaDoo's for dummies" page.

I think where Jim hit the nail on the head was this:

You make lots of good points and don't take the negativity wrong, we like alot of things about the boat but for some of us they could have done better.

I read somewhere on this board that it looks more like they extended the tail section of a smaller boat, not shrunk the interior of the larger boat? I dunno. You're right, I'd like it to have a little more interior room, even if it was just storage space. In fact, they could make the back 2 seats bucket style seats and put some storage in between, and that would help, I'd think.

But I don't think any of this is going to proclude me from buying one. Maybe I've been without a boat too long and I'm wearing rose colored goggles......

Below "my" agreed pricing level? :-) I'll buy it for as cheap as someone will sell it, more gas money....

Reply to this message

davidspstr
Come on... Jan 28,2004 9:57:20 PM GMT

Come on Doo'd can't I get a free T-shirt or something for pegging you so early?

SeaDoo - 2000 - Speedster - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

MikeeZ
LOL - Of course! Jan 28,2004 10:45:46 PM GMT

How about a Speedster 200 T-shirt!
I can handwrite in "310 HP - Perfectly Mediocre" !!!

Seriously. I'm not in their camp, at least no more than the next guy that drools over a new boat. If you explained out why a yamaha or whatever is a better deal, I'd buy that, although i really like the low-maintenance idea.

I'd love a 430HP SS myself, but I'm wondering how much faster it would be.. Plus, if the argument that a pair of motors is alot of maintenance, isn't a pair of supercharged motors even more potential maintenance?

My land-toy is a twin turbo v6 and when it was stock it was still a bit of maintenance..


Reply to this message

Stv
MikeeZ ........ Jan 28,2004 11:50:45 PM GMT

....... have you actually bought this DOO yet ?

If not, and you like the boat, go ahead and buy it. You worry too much !

Don't listen to any of the BS we're serving, this is what we DOO here. If the 200 was a DOG, we'd tell you.

I got a LOT of sceptical crap from several members here when I purchased the first 250 Optimax on this board a couple a years ago. It was down-right hostile, I tell you ;)' hehehe

Much DOOM and Gloom was predicted for this untried in a DOO, Merc engine. Since then several other memebers have followed suit with Optimax purchases and a few others have it on their desire list. Me and others are very satisfied with our decision. You seldom see a Merc or an Optimax-Merc "help me" post.

Anyways, there are trade-offs on every boat purchase. We all have made them.

Oh, and the grind your getting, don't worry about it. We all get it, serve it and receive it. It's part of the entry fee.
Ah, we did tell you about the $ite entry fee didn't we ? ........ Wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

Doooer
Welcome MikeeZ... Jan 29,2004 4:46:27 AM GMT

...to one of the best forums on the web. Don't take much that is written this time of year to heart. If this was a golf website, it would be called the "silly season". Sometimes informative, sometimes funny, but often silly. We even have had guys talking about cameras and cigars. (Oops...have I been lurking?)This is the season where half the continent have their doos in storage and attend various boat shows to add to their dreams and desires. When spring arrives, talk gets much less opinionated and much more technical and helpful.

IMHO, the discussion thread stemming around the Speedster 200 began with someone wanting an owner's viewpoint of the boat. The problem, I believe, is that there haven't been many members of this forum who currently own the boat and therefore our experience is limited to what we've seen/heard at boat shows or from others. I remember when the first pictures of the boat were posted here, everyone was quite excited about it and, perhaps, the "negativity" that you perceive is simply "sober second thought". I think most of us just want the bottom line opinions of a current owner to tell us likes/dislikes about the craft.

Bottom line for you Mikee is that if you like it and can afford it, buy it! It appears that you have it well researched and that you like what you've seen. Just be sure to come back here and share your views and experiences with the rest of the group (most of whom, I'm sure, would like to be in your position).

SeaDoo - 2002 - Speedster - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message

Nuclearfishin
Gotta hand it to ya Mikee.... Jan 29,2004 10:05:05 PM GMT

you certainly came in with all guns blazing!
Mate....I'm just curious....did the SS Mirage/Optimax package or any of the SS boats come into your calculations? If so, what were your thoughts?
As for the Seadoo camp thing.... I'd say the jury's still out on that one! Either way....Blaze on!

Sugar Sands - 1998 - Tango Offshore - Merc 175hp Reply to this message

MikeeZ
SS Mirage ? Jan 30,2004 11:51:33 PM GMT

What boats are you mentioning? Like I said, key points to me are:

Closed cooling system
4-stroke (I like the fuel economy and the no oil mixing)
Decent HP/weight ratio in a ~19-21ft boat.
Very shallow draft due to the type of boating I do

Please make suggestions!

I didn't mean to login and stir the pot, but, the forums seems like its full of a fun group that is fairly thickskinned :-)

I confess I only trolled for an hour or two before signing up and throwing my uneducated opinion in there :-)


Reply to this message

Stv
MikeeZ ........ Jan 31,2004 2:02:25 AM GMT

........... Nuclearfishin is an (OZ) , OZZY as in Australian. Much like a Canadian. He (we) have a very different sense of humour than you Yanks, so take no offence, please!

Personally, I appreciate that we have Yankees, Britt's, Ozzzey's and Canucks on this site to give us a world-wide cosmopolitan view.

Something that you guys are not particularly used to !

Get used to it, you'll be a better person for it !

SeaDoo - 2002 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 250 OptiMax Reply to this message

johnm
noise level Jan 30,2004 3:56:06 AM GMT

The noise of the twin four strokes is very different then the mercs. The sound is very deep and doesn't seem that the motors are turning as fast as they are. . .The vibration at idle Id say is better just because 4 stroke engines are a smother running engine then a 2 stroke. I haven't skied behind the boat, but a wake board will probably fit in the ski locker because it is huge. I didn't know nothing about a wake tower when I bought my boat, the dealer had a hard time even telling me how much the boat was at first.

Reply to this message

MikeeZ
Thanks for the info Feb 1,2004 3:52:46 AM GMT

I got a great email from greg that is going to end up saving me almost 4K, so I appreciate it very much.. I'll keep ya posted after it shows up!


Reply to this message

JimFla
Whats the price ? Feb 1,2004 5:42:08 AM GMT


My dealer is 1 1/2 hrs south of you and can work the deal if your ready.


SeaDoo - 1997 - Challenger 1800 - Twin 110hp Rotax (800) Reply to this message

RichH
I talked to a Doo rep at the boat show about the 200. Jan 29,2004 2:09:11 AM GMT

I really didn't like this boat until I looked at it.While I was looking a Sea-Doo rep asked if I had any
questions and I ended up talking to him for about an hour.This is what I saw and he informed me on.
1)First thing is the size.It's taller than my C2000 which might account for some of the weight difference.
2) He claimed atop speed of 56mph on radar.He also claimed a big improvement in fuel consumption and noise levels.I personally like the sound of my merc.
3)The hull was designed to ride better and handle better than the C2000.
4)The 200 seems to have more storeage than my boat but not a lot more.
5)I asked about the bars and he explained that they are basically the bottom of a wake tower and that the top part of a tower can be added easily.
6)This boat also doen't have any keys.Laynard and two starter buttons.
7)The back seats have no wrap arounds which would allow for four passangers in the back seat.
After looking at it I think it looks like a cross between the Islandia and the C2000.My wife loved it and I liked it but I'd have to drive it and see it on the water before I'd buy.We are in the market for a new boat simply because we keep having kids.

SeaDoo - 2000 - Challenger 2000 - Merc 240 EFI Reply to this message